Many years ago, before trainee ministers began probation, they were formally licenced. This was a requirement before they began probation, as with other things, those preaching needed to be licenced by their presbytery to do so. That is no longer the case, but most presbyteries mark the movement to probation placement with some sort of 'graduate candidate' service.
Personally, this is not something I would want. I feel (and know there are those who disagree with me - we agree to disagree on this one!), in some ways, it is ministers who had licencing feeling that have to do something. If that's the case, it sort of makes it about the presbytery and not about the candidate. Also, I am almost allergic to anything which puts me at the centre of attention, where it is not necessary. Add to that the fact that, just the way things have worked out, I haven't been around in my home presbytery for most of my training (nor will be for probation), they don't really know me.
Yet, and perhaps I'm a bit of a hypocrite here, my home presbytery have not offered a graduate candidate service at all. I know they have done one in the recent past, so there is a president. I wonder if they think the presbytery I will be moving to will do this for me? Either way, I feel strangely hurt and dejected that they haven't offered. Though I still would not want one, if it's not absolutely necessary, it would be nice to be asked, then I could politely decline.
Showing posts with label presbytery. Show all posts
Showing posts with label presbytery. Show all posts
Friday, 20 June 2014
Tuesday, 20 December 2011
Do you feel undermined?
I wonder if there are full-time ministry candidates (or enquirers) out there who find those training for ordained local ministry (OLM) a threat which undermines their ministry. If there are, it makes me sad. Not just because Spot is undertaking the enquiry process for this, but there may be many, many reasons a person feels called to minister in the more flexible way the OLM allows. Also, there is currently an age limit on those beginning training for the full-time ministry, as they must be no more than 55 when they finish their training. As a call can come at any age, it doesn't seem right to me that those above (or close to) 55 would be excluded from undertaking a formal ministry in the Kirk. If it is God's call who are we to contradict that call?
I know there may be some (and I would very much believe they are a very small minority) of those entering OLM training (or enquiry) who want the Reverend title for self-satisfaction, but I'd imagine if there are people with that mindset in OLM training, there may be people entering full-time ministry with that mindset. Given how thorough the assessment program is, it will weed out almost all of the people doing it for the "wrong" reasons. I know there are those who may manipulate the system, but they will be found out at some point. God will sort them out, I'm sure. Again, though, who are we to undermine a person's call? Examine and test it, yes. Dismiss it because that person cannot be full-time for whatever reason - no.
I know if there was an OLM in whichever presbytery I go I would love to think I could use their skills and gifts for God's kingdom where I minister (if that was appropriate). I think that would complement my call, not undermine it. Personally, I think it would be great if every presbytery could have an OLM and was able to use them for the gift they have to share. If I can play a small part in helping that I would feel very privileged.
I know there may be some (and I would very much believe they are a very small minority) of those entering OLM training (or enquiry) who want the Reverend title for self-satisfaction, but I'd imagine if there are people with that mindset in OLM training, there may be people entering full-time ministry with that mindset. Given how thorough the assessment program is, it will weed out almost all of the people doing it for the "wrong" reasons. I know there are those who may manipulate the system, but they will be found out at some point. God will sort them out, I'm sure. Again, though, who are we to undermine a person's call? Examine and test it, yes. Dismiss it because that person cannot be full-time for whatever reason - no.
I know if there was an OLM in whichever presbytery I go I would love to think I could use their skills and gifts for God's kingdom where I minister (if that was appropriate). I think that would complement my call, not undermine it. Personally, I think it would be great if every presbytery could have an OLM and was able to use them for the gift they have to share. If I can play a small part in helping that I would feel very privileged.
Friday, 1 July 2011
Presbytery obersvations
Yesterday, I was invited to Presbytery. It's the first time I've been since last year. There were two things which especially struck me. Firstly, I was the youngest there by 8 years. I know this probably the next youngest were my ministers and I know they are 8 years older than me. Looking at the average age, though, I felt really young and out of place.
Okay, so presbytery is a court of the church. I would have thought that should be represent the whole church. If the age (average around 70) was anything to go by, I find that really disturbing.
Another thing which struck me was the slight absurdity of the process. Such as the moderator bowing to the presbytery. What's that all about? Oh, tradition no doubt. Just look plain daft to me, especially when presbytery bowed back.Then, it was brought up that a church has had an offer for a piece of land it owns. The General Trustees are happy with the offer, as is that church's Kirk Session. Presbytery still had to okay it. Now, that fair enough, but if that had missed this months meeting (and it was a very close thing by all accounts), that agreement could not have been made until September and the sale may have fallen through.
Oh, I know any organisation needs its processes and procedures in place, especially when it is a charity. I know I will, once in ministry, have to attend. I also know I'm not a fan of silly bureaucracy (says a former civil servant) or meetings. And I will have a lot to deal with. I just pray I can stay focused when in those meetings on God's call and not allow the admin to get in the way.
Okay, so presbytery is a court of the church. I would have thought that should be represent the whole church. If the age (average around 70) was anything to go by, I find that really disturbing.
Another thing which struck me was the slight absurdity of the process. Such as the moderator bowing to the presbytery. What's that all about? Oh, tradition no doubt. Just look plain daft to me, especially when presbytery bowed back.Then, it was brought up that a church has had an offer for a piece of land it owns. The General Trustees are happy with the offer, as is that church's Kirk Session. Presbytery still had to okay it. Now, that fair enough, but if that had missed this months meeting (and it was a very close thing by all accounts), that agreement could not have been made until September and the sale may have fallen through.
Oh, I know any organisation needs its processes and procedures in place, especially when it is a charity. I know I will, once in ministry, have to attend. I also know I'm not a fan of silly bureaucracy (says a former civil servant) or meetings. And I will have a lot to deal with. I just pray I can stay focused when in those meetings on God's call and not allow the admin to get in the way.
Sunday, 3 October 2010
Presbytery retreat
I was invited to my presbytery’s retreat day on Tuesday. All involved in ministry in the presbytery were invited – so this included a couple of readers, associate and assistant ministers, myself as a candidate and full-timer ministers. I don’t think there are any Deacons in my presbytery, as I would have expected them to be there.
After the “icebreaker” (which I hate), we had communion. The facilitator of the day asked if anyone had a bible. Of the 30ish there, only 3 did (myself included). That confirmed it was a Church of Scotland retreat day. We will be more likely to turn up with a hymn book than a bible!
But I digress. The strange thing about communion was Sherry was used…that’ll be a white fortified wine. Sorry, but was it bulk blessed before the day by a vicar from the back of an artic? Once I had that “Only Fools and Horses - Miami Twice” reference in my head, I didn’t take communion as seriously as I should. Sometimes I have to remind myself I am not 8 years old anymore...
The day focused on prayer. After communion, we were given some thoughts on prayer by the facilitators, then invited to spend 20 minutes in prayer and reflecting on what prayer meant to us. The group broke up and headed in different directions. Some went for a walk; some stayed in the meeting room and found a quiet corner; others sat in their car. As the venue for the day is set in a park I know very well, I headed straight for the swings. I could see for miles – all the way to the Pentland Hills. Closing my eyes, while swinging backward and forward was very relaxing and meditative. With the bird song and view I really felt God with and all around me. It was probably a little irreverent, but it worked for me.
The rest of the day was a discussion on prayer, what works as individuals and as leaders of worship, what doesn’t work etc. The main thing I gained from those discussions was these things vary depending on individuals, group dynamic, circumstances etc. Frankly, I could have figured that out on my own, but maybe I'm being a little too blunt and not appreciating other may not see things quite the way I do.
At the end of the day, we were led int prayer by one of the facilitators. She invited us to sit comfortably and in our minds visit the various areas of our body and get them to relax. This instantly put me off. I did yoga many years ago and this technique was used at the end of a session. I enjoyed it in that context, but not in prayer. As we went on, it felt more and more as though it was yoga meditation than prayer. We were invited to concentrate on our breathing. Not God. Again, this is a yoga technique! Eventually, in our breathing we were invited to say Yahweh with each breath. Sorry, that just didn't do it for me. I'd rather be on the swings, if that's all the same?
Again, this re-enforced what works for one person may not work for another. As I discussed this with Spot, he commented "It strikes me the people leading this day have their ways of prayer and want to tell everyone about it. It's not based on finding out what other really think, but almost imposing their way and ideas on others". Personally, I think he hit the nail on the head.
As for the day itself. I enjoyed meeting most of the ministers from my presbytery. I enjoyed talking with them and exchanging views with them. I enjoyed the Christian fellowship. I was also in a position to talk with some of the ministers who may be my supervisors during my training. Networking – isn’t it great! So, if that's the one thing I gleaned from the day, it was definitely worth it.
After the “icebreaker” (which I hate), we had communion. The facilitator of the day asked if anyone had a bible. Of the 30ish there, only 3 did (myself included). That confirmed it was a Church of Scotland retreat day. We will be more likely to turn up with a hymn book than a bible!
But I digress. The strange thing about communion was Sherry was used…that’ll be a white fortified wine. Sorry, but was it bulk blessed before the day by a vicar from the back of an artic? Once I had that “Only Fools and Horses - Miami Twice” reference in my head, I didn’t take communion as seriously as I should. Sometimes I have to remind myself I am not 8 years old anymore...
The day focused on prayer. After communion, we were given some thoughts on prayer by the facilitators, then invited to spend 20 minutes in prayer and reflecting on what prayer meant to us. The group broke up and headed in different directions. Some went for a walk; some stayed in the meeting room and found a quiet corner; others sat in their car. As the venue for the day is set in a park I know very well, I headed straight for the swings. I could see for miles – all the way to the Pentland Hills. Closing my eyes, while swinging backward and forward was very relaxing and meditative. With the bird song and view I really felt God with and all around me. It was probably a little irreverent, but it worked for me.
The rest of the day was a discussion on prayer, what works as individuals and as leaders of worship, what doesn’t work etc. The main thing I gained from those discussions was these things vary depending on individuals, group dynamic, circumstances etc. Frankly, I could have figured that out on my own, but maybe I'm being a little too blunt and not appreciating other may not see things quite the way I do.
At the end of the day, we were led int prayer by one of the facilitators. She invited us to sit comfortably and in our minds visit the various areas of our body and get them to relax. This instantly put me off. I did yoga many years ago and this technique was used at the end of a session. I enjoyed it in that context, but not in prayer. As we went on, it felt more and more as though it was yoga meditation than prayer. We were invited to concentrate on our breathing. Not God. Again, this is a yoga technique! Eventually, in our breathing we were invited to say Yahweh with each breath. Sorry, that just didn't do it for me. I'd rather be on the swings, if that's all the same?
Again, this re-enforced what works for one person may not work for another. As I discussed this with Spot, he commented "It strikes me the people leading this day have their ways of prayer and want to tell everyone about it. It's not based on finding out what other really think, but almost imposing their way and ideas on others". Personally, I think he hit the nail on the head.
As for the day itself. I enjoyed meeting most of the ministers from my presbytery. I enjoyed talking with them and exchanging views with them. I enjoyed the Christian fellowship. I was also in a position to talk with some of the ministers who may be my supervisors during my training. Networking – isn’t it great! So, if that's the one thing I gleaned from the day, it was definitely worth it.
Wednesday, 23 June 2010
Anti-climax
Last night was the presbytery meeting where the ministries council's decision to accept me as a candidate in training for ministry was ratified. It was good news for presbytery - two members of churches in presbytery have been accepted for ministry training and a reader had just completed his training.
Having sat through most of the meeting (ministries report was last up) we were presented to presbytery. I at least thought we'd have to go forward and be "welcomed" by the moderator. No - we just were asked to stand up. That was it. No questions, no fan fair, nothing.
I knew this was a procedural thing and it was unlikely the ministries council's decision would be questioned, but I thought there would be a little more "excitement". I suppose that's what comes when the item is near the end and everyone just wants to go home.
I had to leg it pretty sharpish after the meeting. It didn't finish till after nine and if I'm not home by 9:30 I turn into a pumpkin! A couple of members of presbytery did congratulate me as I left, which was nice.
So, looks like I am now, officially, a candidate in training for the ministry of word and sacrament. It's just a pity the training probably won't begin until next year, due to the lack of a uni place. Ne'er mind, these things are all meant. It's all part of God's plan for me, that I am sure of.
Having sat through most of the meeting (ministries report was last up) we were presented to presbytery. I at least thought we'd have to go forward and be "welcomed" by the moderator. No - we just were asked to stand up. That was it. No questions, no fan fair, nothing.
I knew this was a procedural thing and it was unlikely the ministries council's decision would be questioned, but I thought there would be a little more "excitement". I suppose that's what comes when the item is near the end and everyone just wants to go home.
I had to leg it pretty sharpish after the meeting. It didn't finish till after nine and if I'm not home by 9:30 I turn into a pumpkin! A couple of members of presbytery did congratulate me as I left, which was nice.
So, looks like I am now, officially, a candidate in training for the ministry of word and sacrament. It's just a pity the training probably won't begin until next year, due to the lack of a uni place. Ne'er mind, these things are all meant. It's all part of God's plan for me, that I am sure of.
Wednesday, 9 June 2010
Steps towards being "official"
Although I have had the nod from ministries council, regarding my call to ministry, in order to officially become a candidate in training for the ministry of word and sacrament my local presbytery has to approve it (there's probably lots of official language and a proper legal term, I know). So, I let the presbytery clerk know I had been accepted and she passed my details onto the convener of ministries committee in my presbytery.
It is his responsibility to bring the matter regarding my candidacy to presbytery and, with that in mind, we met for a cuppa last night. The discussion was just a "get to know you" session, as neither of us have met before. I also learnt there is another person in the presbytery who has also been recently accepted for ministry training. It'll be good to meet them too, though they will be starting training this year as they have a uni place.
One interesting thing the convener asked was if I had sufficient pastoral support. I mentioned my ministers, but apparently it's better if it's not them. I also mentioned my last local assessor, who has already said she'd be really happy to meet me to chat, if I needed. If I needed more, I'll just shout. I've gotten over my slight reticence to ask for help - I can be a little too independent!
So, in 2 weeks time presbytery should be "rubber stamping" 121's decision. I hope so anyway. As Spot says, they'd need a very good reason over my life and doctrine to knock me back.
It is his responsibility to bring the matter regarding my candidacy to presbytery and, with that in mind, we met for a cuppa last night. The discussion was just a "get to know you" session, as neither of us have met before. I also learnt there is another person in the presbytery who has also been recently accepted for ministry training. It'll be good to meet them too, though they will be starting training this year as they have a uni place.
One interesting thing the convener asked was if I had sufficient pastoral support. I mentioned my ministers, but apparently it's better if it's not them. I also mentioned my last local assessor, who has already said she'd be really happy to meet me to chat, if I needed. If I needed more, I'll just shout. I've gotten over my slight reticence to ask for help - I can be a little too independent!
So, in 2 weeks time presbytery should be "rubber stamping" 121's decision. I hope so anyway. As Spot says, they'd need a very good reason over my life and doctrine to knock me back.
Friday, 6 November 2009
My first...Presbytery meeting
I always had the impression presbytery was a dry, businesslike, meeting. My views haven't changed that much from last night, but the meeting wasn't as boring as I had imagined it would be.
After a short welcome and act of worship lead by the presbytery moderator, it was down to business. I must admit there were TLAs (three letter abbreviations) and the like which were right over my head, but I could follow most of what went on.
About half way through proceedings the matter of the future of tenure for ministry was brought to the floor for discussion. A small booklet for this has been produced and it is summed up with 8 key points. We were broken into 8 groups for 10 minutes to discuss one point each - the potential advantages, disadvantages, further comments and whether ministries council should prepare a full report for next year's General Assembly.
My group's point was, in effect, continual assessment of ministers. I think we all saw the merits of this - dealing with problems at an early stage, ministers having more support after the initial 5 years from ordination etc - but how would it be implemented? A minister is answerable to presbytery, not their elders or congregation. Also, it could, if implemented wrongly, lead to resentment and a feeling a minister was restrained from preaching the word properly.
It was a good discussion and all members of the group contributed. I even made a couple of observations which were noted and I am not a member of presbytery!
I liked the idea of breaking a large group into smaller groups to discuss parts of a topic. There's more chance people will put their views forward. Without presbytery's views going to the appropriate councils at 121, 121 will do what they think is best on the feedback they've had. More feedback and better ways of getting it is no bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
One other thing I noted from last night - how many ministers were wearing their dog collars. I was a little surprised by that, in this day and age. I suppose it could have been the attitude of "I'm at work - work equals dog collar". Whatever rings your bell, I suppose, but I don't think it matters what we wear, even in the business of the church, but what we do and say.
And, I think last night may be the first time ever someone has arrived on a Honda Goldwing!!! The gerbils' car is sick and Mr Gerbil was my chauffeur for the evening.
After a short welcome and act of worship lead by the presbytery moderator, it was down to business. I must admit there were TLAs (three letter abbreviations) and the like which were right over my head, but I could follow most of what went on.
About half way through proceedings the matter of the future of tenure for ministry was brought to the floor for discussion. A small booklet for this has been produced and it is summed up with 8 key points. We were broken into 8 groups for 10 minutes to discuss one point each - the potential advantages, disadvantages, further comments and whether ministries council should prepare a full report for next year's General Assembly.
My group's point was, in effect, continual assessment of ministers. I think we all saw the merits of this - dealing with problems at an early stage, ministers having more support after the initial 5 years from ordination etc - but how would it be implemented? A minister is answerable to presbytery, not their elders or congregation. Also, it could, if implemented wrongly, lead to resentment and a feeling a minister was restrained from preaching the word properly.
It was a good discussion and all members of the group contributed. I even made a couple of observations which were noted and I am not a member of presbytery!
I liked the idea of breaking a large group into smaller groups to discuss parts of a topic. There's more chance people will put their views forward. Without presbytery's views going to the appropriate councils at 121, 121 will do what they think is best on the feedback they've had. More feedback and better ways of getting it is no bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
One other thing I noted from last night - how many ministers were wearing their dog collars. I was a little surprised by that, in this day and age. I suppose it could have been the attitude of "I'm at work - work equals dog collar". Whatever rings your bell, I suppose, but I don't think it matters what we wear, even in the business of the church, but what we do and say.
And, I think last night may be the first time ever someone has arrived on a Honda Goldwing!!! The gerbils' car is sick and Mr Gerbil was my chauffeur for the evening.
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