Today, I went a much more formal church than I am used to, but there wasn't anything I thought totally unexpected. The choir wear robes and lead the minister in at the start of the service. They also sing an introit (not that unusual, I know) and anthem mid-way through the service. They really can sing well and their voices did work well in the space and in context of the worship. Interestingly, the choir was a reasonable age range (from mid-twenties to 70ish, I'd say), both male and female. In many churches I've worked in or visited these few years the choir has been older and either all or mainly women. The mix I found rather refreshing.
I did enjoy the service, though didn't feel that welcomed. On the way in, neither Spot nor I received a "Hello" or "Good morning" from the people handing out hymn books. The minister, passing the pew we were sitting at before worship began, did say hello. It's not his job to do it all, though. After the service, a member of the congregation mentioned to us we could leave by the right hand door, as the queue was people wanting to speak to the minister. We got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that we shouldn't be troubling the minister. These things are the kind of things which could put off visitors returning.
Anyway, given the formality, the service was almost so far from my comfort zone it is in the next galaxy. This may be exactly where I could do a lot of learning and growing, so may be a perfect type of church situation for a placement. I will have many questions over why things are done in certain ways (even if it's tradition, it comes from somewhere) and will need to learn to respect them while ensuring they do not get in the way of leading people to a relationship with God. At the end of the day, that's the most important part of ministry.
Just need to see where God calls me to go, even for training, as that's the situations where I'll learn where I need to be and what God really needs of me.
Showing posts with label visiting other churches. Show all posts
Showing posts with label visiting other churches. Show all posts
Sunday, 15 May 2011
Thursday, 3 March 2011
An honour and privilege
On Sunday, Spot and I attended the baptism of the son of friends of ours. I've lost count of the number of times I have been at church when a baptism has been taking place, but this was the first time I had been invited to a baptism.
There was a relaxed atmosphere in the church and almost everything during the service was explained in a non-patronising manner. That made the experience, especially for those without a Church of Scotland background, to still feel part of the worship. The only thing which could have been explained was where to find the words of the Apostles Creed and Lord's prayer, as the church does not have a projector. Not only for those who would not those by heart, but there can be (and was) variation in the words from those the baptism party members were perhaps familiar with.
It was an honour and privilege to be part of such an important occasion in the life of our friends' son. I know he will grow up in a loving and caring household, where Christ's love is ever present.
There was a relaxed atmosphere in the church and almost everything during the service was explained in a non-patronising manner. That made the experience, especially for those without a Church of Scotland background, to still feel part of the worship. The only thing which could have been explained was where to find the words of the Apostles Creed and Lord's prayer, as the church does not have a projector. Not only for those who would not those by heart, but there can be (and was) variation in the words from those the baptism party members were perhaps familiar with.
It was an honour and privilege to be part of such an important occasion in the life of our friends' son. I know he will grow up in a loving and caring household, where Christ's love is ever present.
Tuesday, 22 February 2011
Don't throw stools!
Over the weekend, Spot and I were in York. While there, we looked around for somewhere to worship on Sunday. A couple of years ago, we attended Sung Eucharist at York Minster. Last year, we went to St Michael le Belfrey Church and it didn't really work for us
This year, we attended sung Mattins at All Saints Pavement, York. They were very welcoming, especially as we really looked like tourists - wearing waterproofs and rucksacks on our backs. It was a very formal service - using the book of common prayer. Fortunately, Spot and I had sat at the back and we could follow those in front. To start with, we had no idea what was going on - everyone else seemed to know. We were relieved and pleased when a kind gentleman took pity on us and pointed us in the right direction!
The service itself, though, I did enjoy and I felt spiritually uplifted. That despite almost feeling like a spectator, rather than active worshiper. The sung parts from the book of common prayer I merely listened to as I didn't know the melody.
After the service, the gentleman who had helped us out told us a little about the church and its use of the book of common prayer. Being a guild church, that means the guilds attending know what's going on (I didn't have the heart to say, I find an order of service works well too!). I explained the Church of Scotland doesn't use it and stools had been thrown when it was imposed (allegedly). We also met the parish constable - a lovely man, who showed us his lead weighted truncheon from Charles I. A beautiful, yet deadly weapon. Luckily, it's a ceremonial position theses days. Just as well it was a Sunday, with a Scotsman within the York city walls.
Later in the day, following the recommendation of a local, we attended Evensong at York Minster. Again, following the book of common prayer when your not used to it is odd, but the service itself was beautiful. The sound of choir and organ intertwined as one - and the sermon wasn't too bad either! I did get confused with someone looking like black rod - same looking gown and rod in hand - processing the people who read the bible lessons in, but that's just bye-the-bye.
After the services we attended on Sunday, Church of Scotland will seem comfortable and familiar, though sometimes I think we maybe miss out on the added spiritual depths these different forms of worship can have. The way I see it, if that works for an individual - if they find God in that worship - then it's doing what it is there for. If God is the focus and is felt, does it matter how we get there?
This year, we attended sung Mattins at All Saints Pavement, York. They were very welcoming, especially as we really looked like tourists - wearing waterproofs and rucksacks on our backs. It was a very formal service - using the book of common prayer. Fortunately, Spot and I had sat at the back and we could follow those in front. To start with, we had no idea what was going on - everyone else seemed to know. We were relieved and pleased when a kind gentleman took pity on us and pointed us in the right direction!
The service itself, though, I did enjoy and I felt spiritually uplifted. That despite almost feeling like a spectator, rather than active worshiper. The sung parts from the book of common prayer I merely listened to as I didn't know the melody.
After the service, the gentleman who had helped us out told us a little about the church and its use of the book of common prayer. Being a guild church, that means the guilds attending know what's going on (I didn't have the heart to say, I find an order of service works well too!). I explained the Church of Scotland doesn't use it and stools had been thrown when it was imposed (allegedly). We also met the parish constable - a lovely man, who showed us his lead weighted truncheon from Charles I. A beautiful, yet deadly weapon. Luckily, it's a ceremonial position theses days. Just as well it was a Sunday, with a Scotsman within the York city walls.
Later in the day, following the recommendation of a local, we attended Evensong at York Minster. Again, following the book of common prayer when your not used to it is odd, but the service itself was beautiful. The sound of choir and organ intertwined as one - and the sermon wasn't too bad either! I did get confused with someone looking like black rod - same looking gown and rod in hand - processing the people who read the bible lessons in, but that's just bye-the-bye.
After the services we attended on Sunday, Church of Scotland will seem comfortable and familiar, though sometimes I think we maybe miss out on the added spiritual depths these different forms of worship can have. The way I see it, if that works for an individual - if they find God in that worship - then it's doing what it is there for. If God is the focus and is felt, does it matter how we get there?
Sunday, 25 October 2009
Well, I didn't get that!
It's a long story, but my hubbie and I were invited to a church in the neighbouring parish to my home church today. The style of the service was such I'm still not sure what the theme of the service or point of the sermon was.
The service set-up on the surface appears quite modern. Many people have role in the service, there is no pulpit at all and a praise band leads part of the worship. However, there are some very traditional elements which did not sit well with the general style, in my opinion. For example, the bible in formally processed in and the congregation stands for this and the congregation are invited to stand during the Lord's prayer.
There didn't appear to be a coherent theme running through the service. The children's talk was the story of Ruth, the opening prayer was in relation to harvest, the sermon was based on this reading and the prayer of intercession (I think, given it's position and the themes in the other prayers) was for the congregation.
While some of the elements were well presented, the message from them was not clear. Just after the children left for young church 2 mediations were read, apparently in relation to harvest. I think meditations can be a very good way of expressing biblical truth simply, when they are either self-explanatory or are explained. The ones used in the service may have been self-explanatory, but I didn't get how they related to harvest. Also, the sermon was an excellent presentation. The minister worked without notes at all (which is the norm apparently), he had many anecdotes and a good style of presentation, but there was no conclusion, just a series of scenarios - an interpretation of what would Jesus have said to a possessive parent, for example. While the examples were helpful for the congregation to relate to the passage, they were used as the conclusion, leaving me wondering eh, have I missed something?
Overall, there were 10 people involved in worship. The minister, two people leading the prayers, one reading the meditation, one reading the bible passage, one doing the welcome and intimations and four in the praise band. While I applaud those others than the minister being involved in the service, I felt this was a bit excessive. They all appeared from their seats during the service, rather than sitting at the front or together. I found this very distracting.
I know this all sounds very negative, but I really didn't get anything from the service and felt there was a lot of (to quote part of one of the hymns) "we want to worship you" going on. Well, stop wanting to and actually get on with it! I know I don't always get the point the minister may have been trying to get across, but I like to come away with something - challenged, empowered, uplifted - I don't mind, as long as I come away with something. With this service I was left empty.
I know I am noticing things because I am analysing things at the moment, but even my hubbie was picking up on some of it. The thing I find funny is I know many people in that church think their service is the way to do it and can't understand why other churches do it differently or other people don't necessarily like their style of worship. Fortunately, the Kirk is a broad church and their is room for a broad range of people and worship styles, as today's experience prove.
The service set-up on the surface appears quite modern. Many people have role in the service, there is no pulpit at all and a praise band leads part of the worship. However, there are some very traditional elements which did not sit well with the general style, in my opinion. For example, the bible in formally processed in and the congregation stands for this and the congregation are invited to stand during the Lord's prayer.
There didn't appear to be a coherent theme running through the service. The children's talk was the story of Ruth, the opening prayer was in relation to harvest, the sermon was based on this reading and the prayer of intercession (I think, given it's position and the themes in the other prayers) was for the congregation.
While some of the elements were well presented, the message from them was not clear. Just after the children left for young church 2 mediations were read, apparently in relation to harvest. I think meditations can be a very good way of expressing biblical truth simply, when they are either self-explanatory or are explained. The ones used in the service may have been self-explanatory, but I didn't get how they related to harvest. Also, the sermon was an excellent presentation. The minister worked without notes at all (which is the norm apparently), he had many anecdotes and a good style of presentation, but there was no conclusion, just a series of scenarios - an interpretation of what would Jesus have said to a possessive parent, for example. While the examples were helpful for the congregation to relate to the passage, they were used as the conclusion, leaving me wondering eh, have I missed something?
Overall, there were 10 people involved in worship. The minister, two people leading the prayers, one reading the meditation, one reading the bible passage, one doing the welcome and intimations and four in the praise band. While I applaud those others than the minister being involved in the service, I felt this was a bit excessive. They all appeared from their seats during the service, rather than sitting at the front or together. I found this very distracting.
I know this all sounds very negative, but I really didn't get anything from the service and felt there was a lot of (to quote part of one of the hymns) "we want to worship you" going on. Well, stop wanting to and actually get on with it! I know I don't always get the point the minister may have been trying to get across, but I like to come away with something - challenged, empowered, uplifted - I don't mind, as long as I come away with something. With this service I was left empty.
I know I am noticing things because I am analysing things at the moment, but even my hubbie was picking up on some of it. The thing I find funny is I know many people in that church think their service is the way to do it and can't understand why other churches do it differently or other people don't necessarily like their style of worship. Fortunately, the Kirk is a broad church and their is room for a broad range of people and worship styles, as today's experience prove.
Monday, 2 February 2009
Buckhaven
As I mentioned in an earlier post (here, as part of my CFA I am to visit 3 or 4 churches and write a review on them.
Yesterday my husband and I went to Buckhaven Parish church. It's an older church (mid 1800s), with some re-modelling looking to have been done in the 1970s. It is part of a linked charge with East Wemyss, so that will pose an other set of challenges for the minister.
The welcome was really positive. All on the door said good morning and ensured we got orders of service and hymn books. They still use CH4 and Songs of God's People, but Buckhaven is a fairly deprived town and there almost certainly won't be money to replace them. Nothing wrong with that, though.
At the start and end of the service, the bible is brought in and taken out from the church. During those times the congregation stands. The order of service did note this, so we weren't in the dark as to what was going on. Personally, I don't mind if the bible stays in the church all the time or is brought in and out to mark the service, but I do think there should be some ceremony to it. My home church leaves it in and my placement church take it in and out, but with no ceremony, so it you were visiting you probably wouldn't notice.
Unfortunately, there were no children or young people in the congregation. My husband and I were the youngest. I'd guess, apart from the minister and deacon, the congregation were 60+. It was predominately female and there were about 70 people at the service.
The minister and deacon shared the service, with the minister doing the readings and prayers and the deacon the sermon. The service is the same as at East Wemyss, except for there is a children's address there, I later established.
At the beginning of the service, the minister welcomed everyone to the service and invited us all to say good morning to those around us. At that point, everyone shook hands etc. This despite they had all already greeted each other. It was a little unexpected, but I thought it said a lot about the church. Very friendly - we were not left out. My husband did feel it a little out of his comfort zone, but he's a little stuffy when it comes to those things!!!
The general style of the service was very much like a "standard" Church of Scotland service (if there is such a thing). The theme of the service was us all having a unique part to play in the kingdom of God. Mmmh - some of what the deacon said sounded like the sermon was for me as much as the congregation. I've had that a couple of times since I've been to the enquirers' conference!!!
Immediately after the service, the lady sitting in front of me turned round and told me what a lovely voice I have. I was somewhat taken aback by that as I can't hold a tune in a bucket!!! I'm also not very graceful in accepting complements, though I did thank her profusely (admittedly in a slightly shocked state). My husband commented later on I should have told her digital hearing aids are available from the NHS (cheeky man)!!!
After the service there were teas and coffees. Not many people stay for coffees as the service finishes at 12:15 at least and many people want to get home for lunch. In saying that, they feel it is important to offer them. I found that added to my impression of the friendliness of the church.
No balance, if I had moved to Buckhaven and was looking for a new church, I would certainly visit Buckhaven Parish Church again.
Yesterday my husband and I went to Buckhaven Parish church. It's an older church (mid 1800s), with some re-modelling looking to have been done in the 1970s. It is part of a linked charge with East Wemyss, so that will pose an other set of challenges for the minister.
The welcome was really positive. All on the door said good morning and ensured we got orders of service and hymn books. They still use CH4 and Songs of God's People, but Buckhaven is a fairly deprived town and there almost certainly won't be money to replace them. Nothing wrong with that, though.
At the start and end of the service, the bible is brought in and taken out from the church. During those times the congregation stands. The order of service did note this, so we weren't in the dark as to what was going on. Personally, I don't mind if the bible stays in the church all the time or is brought in and out to mark the service, but I do think there should be some ceremony to it. My home church leaves it in and my placement church take it in and out, but with no ceremony, so it you were visiting you probably wouldn't notice.
Unfortunately, there were no children or young people in the congregation. My husband and I were the youngest. I'd guess, apart from the minister and deacon, the congregation were 60+. It was predominately female and there were about 70 people at the service.
The minister and deacon shared the service, with the minister doing the readings and prayers and the deacon the sermon. The service is the same as at East Wemyss, except for there is a children's address there, I later established.
At the beginning of the service, the minister welcomed everyone to the service and invited us all to say good morning to those around us. At that point, everyone shook hands etc. This despite they had all already greeted each other. It was a little unexpected, but I thought it said a lot about the church. Very friendly - we were not left out. My husband did feel it a little out of his comfort zone, but he's a little stuffy when it comes to those things!!!
The general style of the service was very much like a "standard" Church of Scotland service (if there is such a thing). The theme of the service was us all having a unique part to play in the kingdom of God. Mmmh - some of what the deacon said sounded like the sermon was for me as much as the congregation. I've had that a couple of times since I've been to the enquirers' conference!!!
Immediately after the service, the lady sitting in front of me turned round and told me what a lovely voice I have. I was somewhat taken aback by that as I can't hold a tune in a bucket!!! I'm also not very graceful in accepting complements, though I did thank her profusely (admittedly in a slightly shocked state). My husband commented later on I should have told her digital hearing aids are available from the NHS (cheeky man)!!!
After the service there were teas and coffees. Not many people stay for coffees as the service finishes at 12:15 at least and many people want to get home for lunch. In saying that, they feel it is important to offer them. I found that added to my impression of the friendliness of the church.
No balance, if I had moved to Buckhaven and was looking for a new church, I would certainly visit Buckhaven Parish Church again.
Sunday, 30 November 2008
Killing 2 birds with 1 stone
As part of my co-ordinated field assessment I am to visit 4 or 5 other churches (other than my home or placement church) to get an idea of different worship styles etc. So, today I visited the new church in Bankfoot. I chose there as both my husband and I wanted to see the new building as its been built on very sustainable principles and is probably one of the most green building in Scotland.
On arrival, although a modern building, it was still obvious it was a church. There's a 3D celtic cross on the roof and crosses on the windows. There was a welcoming aura to the building. That said, there was a bit of a gaggle of people at the door. They didn't really welcome us or give us an order of service and let us know we didn't need a hymn book - that could have put a lot of people off.
The worship area has no pews (which would be awful in a new church), but comfy chairs and no hymn books or bibles - everything is on PowerPoint. There are 2 screens for PowerPoint type presentations integrated into the design, so everyone can see.
Today is the first Sunday in advent, so that was the theme - the hope of Christ's coming. The hope the prophets had that God would send a Messiah and the hope we have that Jesus will keep his promise to return. I must admit there was part of me thinking of the t-shirt that says "Look busy Jesus is coming".
The basic format of the service was pretty much the usual CofS service. The use of PowerPoint was good - not overkill, but appropriate (hymns, the bible readings and church notices).
During the children's address the minister didn't invite them to the front. This despite them all sitting scattered over the worship area. Thus, the talk was more a short sermon aimed at all, rather than a children's specific talk. The talk was good, but I think the children were less willing to answer the minister's questions whilst they were sitting beside their parents.
There were no bibles available during the service, but the readings were displayed on the screens. I can see the advantage with this, as the most appropriate translation can be used. I only saw 1 bible during the service. It was brought in at the start and placed on the communion table. This is something I hadn't seen in my home church as the bible stays in the worship area, but does happen at my placement church. I can understand the symbolism - the word of God brought into the church to be central to the act of worship. Personally, I think if a church is going to do that for the symbolism, they could at least open the bible. At Bankfoot, the bible was placed closed on the communion table and never opened - I didn't like that.
After the service, there were teas and coffees served. This seemed to be a very social occasion, with the majority of the worshipers staying. I know I sometimes I have gained more from the fellowship of the teas after the service than the sermon!
In terms of ages, there was a reasonable mix. There were around 15-20 children aged from a few months to about 13. There weren't many teenagers, though. This is a common problem in the CofS. The parents of the children were the next age group and almost all ages were present up to late 70s/early 80s. In total there were around 80 worshipers.This despite below freezing temperatures outside.
On balance, I did enjoy the service and if I lived locally would probably attend regularly. If I was in the area again, I would go back.
On arrival, although a modern building, it was still obvious it was a church. There's a 3D celtic cross on the roof and crosses on the windows. There was a welcoming aura to the building. That said, there was a bit of a gaggle of people at the door. They didn't really welcome us or give us an order of service and let us know we didn't need a hymn book - that could have put a lot of people off.
The worship area has no pews (which would be awful in a new church), but comfy chairs and no hymn books or bibles - everything is on PowerPoint. There are 2 screens for PowerPoint type presentations integrated into the design, so everyone can see.
Today is the first Sunday in advent, so that was the theme - the hope of Christ's coming. The hope the prophets had that God would send a Messiah and the hope we have that Jesus will keep his promise to return. I must admit there was part of me thinking of the t-shirt that says "Look busy Jesus is coming".
The basic format of the service was pretty much the usual CofS service. The use of PowerPoint was good - not overkill, but appropriate (hymns, the bible readings and church notices).
During the children's address the minister didn't invite them to the front. This despite them all sitting scattered over the worship area. Thus, the talk was more a short sermon aimed at all, rather than a children's specific talk. The talk was good, but I think the children were less willing to answer the minister's questions whilst they were sitting beside their parents.
There were no bibles available during the service, but the readings were displayed on the screens. I can see the advantage with this, as the most appropriate translation can be used. I only saw 1 bible during the service. It was brought in at the start and placed on the communion table. This is something I hadn't seen in my home church as the bible stays in the worship area, but does happen at my placement church. I can understand the symbolism - the word of God brought into the church to be central to the act of worship. Personally, I think if a church is going to do that for the symbolism, they could at least open the bible. At Bankfoot, the bible was placed closed on the communion table and never opened - I didn't like that.
After the service, there were teas and coffees served. This seemed to be a very social occasion, with the majority of the worshipers staying. I know I sometimes I have gained more from the fellowship of the teas after the service than the sermon!
In terms of ages, there was a reasonable mix. There were around 15-20 children aged from a few months to about 13. There weren't many teenagers, though. This is a common problem in the CofS. The parents of the children were the next age group and almost all ages were present up to late 70s/early 80s. In total there were around 80 worshipers.This despite below freezing temperatures outside.
On balance, I did enjoy the service and if I lived locally would probably attend regularly. If I was in the area again, I would go back.
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