Where to pray the Lord's Prayer?

Where should be Lord's prayer be in a service? Does it need to go in every week? Should the minister lead it or pray with the congregation?

These are questions in my head - and have been for a while. The first, because (and I only discovered this last week) it 'normally' is included with the thanksgiving and intercession prayer, which comes after the sermon. I 'usually' include it in approach and confession, which comes after the first hymn.

I haven't had a chance to discuss this at supervision yet, but the question(s) arose on the back of my support group meeting and one of the AV guys asking where I would have it (as they put the words on the screen and there had been a bit of a panic the week before - oops!).

Personally, I prefer it in a prayer when the children are present. Yes, this is the summer, so the children are in for the whole service, but in a couple of weeks time that'll all change, as they head off for 'age specific' church following the children's address and hymn. If it's usually prayed after they have left, they may rarely, if ever hear it. I know some would say they won't understand, but (1) why wouldn't they? (2) do the adults really understand? and (3) how can you learn what you don't know?

And, in the Kirk 'tradition' (I use this word advisedly) there aren't prayers with are said together as a congregation and/or responses as the weekly norm. Inclusion of the Lord's prayer near the beginning allows the whole congregation to pray together. Children and adults (and lets not forget the adults who will go out to lead the children, who will miss this too). And the minister, if they pray with the congregation.

That's how I do it. Start off the Lord's prayer, then drop my voice to pray with rather than lead the congregation in prayer. With decent AV and words on the screen, I feel there is less need for the minister to lead the prayers. I like being part of the worshipping community and praying with them, even though I am up the front and still, to a degree, leading them in prayer. This was picked up on by my support group, but they were happy when I explained. A couple of people even said that's their preference - that the minister prays with the congregation.

But, does it need to be included as the default every week? Will people learn to say the words by rote but that's as far as it goes? Would being inconsistent in using it make people think about it more, or would it muddy the waters, as people get confused about when it is or isn't being used? I know I would rather include it every week, in the same way intimations, collection and benediction are included every week (among others). A regular pattern (oh, that'll be liturgy) can help people worship 'easier', as they think about what's being said or done, rather than what's coming next. It's also useful for those with either learning difficulties or dementia, as the familiar pattern is lodged in the long-term memory, so they too can worship together. Jumping around too much just confuses everyone, especially the most vulnerable in congregations, IMHO.

Kindgom and Covenant

I am preaching a week on Sunday (I, know, seems a long way off, but uni starts on Monday!). For January, my supervisor is preaching the 'theme' for the year, around Kingdom and Covenant. So, I am following this pattern. (As a 'get it off my chest aside', this differs from what I was told when arrangements were made for me preaching that day. I was told we'd be back to following the book they are using. Glad I hadn't began work based on that information. Sigh. All part of the learning)

Why? Because I'm a guest there and because I know it'll be difficult for me. But I like a challenge - that's one of the reasons I asked for Caledonia Kirk as a placement.

What immediately occurred to me the Lord's prayer (especially the version in Matthew's gospel) could be a possibility for dealing with the kingdom. I'm currently reading "The Lord and His Prayer" by Tom Wright (which I have had for a few weeks, with every intention to read during my uni break and only started after I'd found out the theme for my preaching). According to Wright, if the terms of the Lord's Prayer are fully understood, then God's kingdom and covenant are fully revealed.

I have done some additional reading around the Lord's prayer and it's coming to light in a whole new way for me. If that's the case for me, there's bound to be people at Caledonia who'd appreciate it too. I just hope I can, once again, remain true to myself without being disrespectful of the theology at Caledonia.

(Again, another aside rant. Why is it respect isn't always reciprocated? I am trying to understand other theologies - which is part of the reason I chose Caledonia. I know with that greater understanding, I can be more respectful and better able to engage with those with a more conservative theology than my own. But I don't necessarily feel my viewpoint is respected.)